dear suzy a strange thing happend. i was sat on a plane with my two children. going on my first holiday since my seperation. full of fear and wanting to turn back and i had bought septembers eve. and was reading your intervew and i can only say it was a bleesing . to read your story it gave so much strength. we had a fab holiday and i am so proud i did it alone. thank you. Taniaxx
anna on
October 16th, 2008 4:13 pm
What a great story, I am in the middle of a horrible situation with a of a partner of 11 years now saying – don’t want this anymore and it’s been bad for years, with 2 kids it’s painful but your story gives me hope – Thanks anna
Suzy on
October 18th, 2008 11:28 pm
It takes great faith when you are in the midst of it all to believe that things can ever be better, but positive support is essential. I am putting together an online resource site to provide information and ideas of ways to start over: check out http://www.sos-village.org. Personal stories and resource suggestions are welcomed.
BRAVO Anna!!! This is so well written and as someone who has never married but who has endured Dating Groundhog Day (brilliant!) for many, many years, I am here to say that I too feel that I am older, wiser (although admittedly cynical and tired sometimes) but I have never totally given up and I do believe that if you do forgive yourself for the part you played in the decisions you made about who you chose to get involved with that you DO realize, “that how people treat you is their karma. How you react is yours.” I couldn’t have said that better myself. I sure wish I could be at this workshop because I’m sure it would be incredibly empowering!! Best of luck to you always!
Bernie on
November 3rd, 2008 2:12 am
ANNA IS AN AWSOME Surce of wisodm and advice andhumor for other going through the unexpected losses in love. HEr book DAISY DOOLEY DOES DIVORCE is A HOT must read and a VERY QUICK and humourous reraqd that will leave you wanting more!!!! And as she said starting over is a chance to grow and learnand have new beginnings!!!! God bless ANna for her ability tonot only help others through her sharing about her life but to entertain and inspire along the way!!! GO TO THIS EVENT if you can!!!! You wont be sorry!!!
Paige on
November 3rd, 2008 2:24 am
This article mirrors my experience of finding my own power through adversity. Would I trade who I am today for an easier past? NO WAY! This tells me I am right where I need to be at each and every turn, even when the going is tough and more than likely especially when this is the case.
“….how people treat you is their karma. How you react is yours.”
AMEN to that!
My thanks to SOS and Anna Pasternak for a brilliant affirming article I shan’t forget any time soon!
itsknewid on
December 18th, 2008 3:53 pm
I wish I had the courage to leave my lover (Robert). People tease me for being with him just to try to get me to dump him. So far he’s taken $200,000-300,000 from me and he never treats me with respect. -itsknewid
Suzy on
December 18th, 2008 5:33 pm
Thank you for sharing your dilemma with us – letting go of even an unhealthy relationship is incredibly tough and very difficult to do without the right kind of support.
When I have found starting over from a relationship difficult I have taken advice from the wise, and I recommed you have a chat with some our exhibitors in the Inspiration Zone (under the `Visiting’ tab on the menu at the top of this page). We are all responsible for our own happiness, but that doesn’t mean we have to do it all alone!
Good luck.
Suzy
Amanda on
January 7th, 2009 10:08 am
my husband left me feb 08…….after 15 years of being together…you know the feelings of when it happens, the heartache, the desperation, the tears, need i go on ?
Daisys are my fave flowers, always have been, i have a little tattoo hidden away of a daisyflower….
whilst out 1 day shortly after hubby left me i walked into a book shop, there staring right at me was Daisy Dooley does divorce…..i burst into tears…it was as if the book had my name written all over it !!
so i bought it and read it in a matter of days…i couldnt put it down !! i think in the end i read it 3 times over that same month..
hubby sorry ex was still living with me at the time and he saw the book out many times but didnt say anything..
that book gave me strenght when i was in such a bad place and i thank you for that….truely.
i gave the book away to a friend who was going through a similar experience – i wrote in the front pages and wished her well..
she said the same as me that the book was truely amazing !!
Relationship breakdown encourages great change in peoples lives and these people have helped me harness this development in my life, and turn it into something positive.
Rudi on
January 27th, 2009 7:12 am
I would like to say this collaborative process should be made the first step in every divorce proceedings!
I myself is on my second divorce; My first 30 years ago-she wanted a trial seperation, I refused-(on the grounds 3 sickly kids involved)she left! To give herself significance she told all family and friends what they wanted to hear, with much courts to do!
However my efforts and success with my kids were totally overlooked while the courts and welfare forced our children onto her no matter how many times she return them to me with the excuse they were looking after the children’s interest???
I was accuse of violence, bullying, financial incompitance – but a few….yet the same welfare officer in the last paragraph of her report stated I was the best able to to take care of the kids.. temporaryly anyway. Never heard from her again! that is untill my recent heart attack, she wanted to make amends and wish we could have behave differently!?
Suffice to say I had the joys of bring up 3 tiny people and growing with them; 2 MEN and A-MOTHER-OF-A-WOMAN!!! all graduate professionals and articulate communicaters for myself I am able to articulate this commentry!!!!!
All this on a wing and a prayer, and the failure of the system to force a woman to be a mother she couldn’t or wanted to be;-
That their groundless alligetion to thwart my efforts and energy into abandon my ambition to be the Father my children needed failed!
Suzy on
January 27th, 2009 7:59 am
Your story is an inspiration to other father’s in a similar position.
For any single dads reading this, Families Need Fathers are a fantastic support organisation, and also Wikivorce online forum can provide much a community of advice and shared experiences. http://www.familiesneedfathers.co.uk http://www.wikivorce.com
Ally on
March 1st, 2009 7:51 pm
Suzy,
What a great story and inspiration to all of us finding ourselves in this situation. I had been married for 12 years, had a gorgeous 8 year old daughter. A few months ago I discovered he was having an affair with my, and I now use the term loosely “best friend”. Double wammy. We are now separated, and beginning the long journey of divorce. I’m not sure games of pool will ever be on the cards for us, I might do far too much damage with the cue! Children are definately what makes it harder, but also what has kept me off the kitchen floor screaming “why”! Uniforms to wash and dinner to prepare. Onwards and upwards. Ally xx
chaucer on
April 5th, 2009 8:34 pm
There’s no doubt that where a child or children are involved one is compelled to fight with horrendous pain in order for them to still be able to have a relationship with the father(figure). If I could have forced my ex to give and to love me, believe me he would be by now – but – I couldn’t. It is very painful to see him and to do some things together for the sake of my daughter (7), who has known him her whole life, and is therefore Dad to her. The fact that it feels so unreal to me, and I want to scream at him “why can’t you say something about this”, is something I am trying to work through for myself. There is no point trying to have the conversation, he just does not ‘get it’, and I guess from his perspective I don’t get his wanting it all – the bachelor life and us when it feels ok. So I am now absolutely single, working through grief, in order to be open, one day to love – of the give and take, for better or worse variety….. and in the meantime I see my ex every weekend for my daughter. It feels very difficult, it feels absolutely the right thing to do. I have to learn to accept that my ex just can’t do more than he than he can do at this point in time, BUT I can!!!!!
Kristi on
April 16th, 2009 3:28 pm
Your story brought a tear to my eye.
It is an amazing thing that we have to go through.
and so true…..the shock when they open up suddenly
is SO OVERWHELMING…….
keep up the good work.
It’s definitely a work in progress!
I think….sometimes….lonely much better for us…..We can focus with our child…..I know this very hard…..but I think this is better choice beside bad choice that we have…….
Suzy on
April 24th, 2009 3:32 pm
I think you are both right with your comments – becoming self assured and not being afraid to feel lonelyness, fear and all those natural emotions we all experience, is key. Acceptance, rather than trying to find immediate escape routes/pain relief of any kind, is a better long term solution. Acceptance takes much more inner strength and courage – it is the opposite of giving in.
Anna, you are a star and inspiration to all women around the world. Not only have you survived divorce you also withstood all those ghastly rumours that eventuated on publication of the Love Rat’s tales of luuurve.
If I were to make a package for couples getting married, it would include:
1) Booklet on how to arrange a stress free wedding and how to enjoy it by not being totally exhausted on the day… (have lots of ideas on this as I organised my own, on my own, as husband was not detail orientated!!! He just said yes or no!!!!)
2) Booklet called something like “Communicate now or forever hold your peace!!!” Some wise words that are non judgmental and like little pearls of wisdom should obstacles present themselves….which they always do
3) Gift set including feel good books like The Art of Happiness etc and maybe a nice perfume for ladies and an aftershave for men – aromatherapy makes people happy!
4) Directory of things to do in various areas, like London, that are couple friendly and fun and also not too expensive and possibly free (like the museums….maybe even some vouchers in there if the museums agree….) Encouraging fun and discovery can keep things challenging and strong in a relationship, I think.
5) I would be very reluctant to put masses of information on legal rights, lawyers and medical professionals or therapists at this point but an envelope which I might entitle “In Case of Emergency” (!) with for example SOS’s details and some info on what such an organisation provides…..
Well, those are just my thoughts……!
Stephen R Hillier on
August 19th, 2009 6:45 pm
Good article, Suzy.
Lawyers are a big problem for divorcing couples. They can have a tendency to have more of an eye on their fees than what is best for the couples and respecting what they have amicably agreed. They have a huge incentive to inject areas of contention.
Another point that you may like to look into, or campaign about if I’ve got this right, but that is to remove the negative effect of moving out of the shared home on any eventual proceedings. Time & again I’m told I shouldn’t have moved out but it is absolutely bonkers that a couple should be forced to share the same roof because of some arcane legal nicety. Isn’t it?
Nuff ranting from me….
Suzy on
August 19th, 2009 7:57 pm
You are so right Stephen, people staying in the same house because the lawyers tell them to is absolutely crazy. And now we have people staying in the same house because they cannot afford to move out before the house is sold, which can take over a year……
Thank you to all at Jeffrey Green Russell, our generous hosts, with a great venue for our first 2010 SOS get together. A fun, social evening with plenty of opportunities to network. Many thanks to Scott for the great photos and of course to Suzy, for her infectious enthusiasm, drive and generous spirit. Lovely to catch up with old friends and meet some new ones – good to have you on board. Lets make next year’s shows a reason to get the world’s press talking again. See you in October.
Not knowing Baroness Deech’s background, I think you, Suzy, have a much firmer grasp on reality. As you say, the decision for one parent to stay home is a joint decision made with the best interests of the children in mind. If children have had a stay-at-home parent before divorce then IMHO they will do best with a stay-at-home parent after divorce, if that is at all possible. It makes sense for that to be the same parent who’s been at home before the divorce but it doesn’t have to be that way. Most of us don’t have millions to fight over.
There are so many things that could be said about the notion of ‘banning divorce’!
My main question at the moment is this – what is/are the underlying intention(s) in our society’s approaches, rules and regulations on human relationship? You point to the emotional and spiritual aspects of marriage and divorce. I think that this is something that we miss in our compartmentalised approach to living. I’m wondering what would happen if we really started considering the whole human being. Marriage is a legal status and is therefore subject to the purview of law and by extension government.( Although the relationship between ‘law’ and ‘government’ is a topic in itself.) Marriage as a legal status provides certain protections and regulations for individuals, property and material resources. Historically, marriage laws were brought about for these purposes – and for the purposes of ensuring lineage continuity in certain strands of society. Historically marriage laws were not created to address the requirements of the feeling, thinking, breathing human being. And for me, there’s the rub.
I wonder what would happen if law and government were to start taking seriously the needs of the whole human being – material (this includes the property/ money/ resources aspect), emotional, intellectual and spiritual. It seems that there is a second question following hot on the heels of this one: are law and government equipped to address these? Historically religious institutions have supposedly addressed the inner life of man (and I use the gendered pronoun deliberately). But increasingly, people seem to have different needs. I have many friends who have got married in church. Not a single one of them goes to church or engages in ongoing commitment to a religious institution. Church provided a beautiful and sacred setting for the momentous rite of passage that was their wedding. But would they consult a priest for relationship advice? Probably not.
So the question is, what are our relationship needs and how can they best be addressed? How can the legal vehicle of marriage/ divorce best relate to the inner life of human beings – our emotional, intellectual and spiritual needs?
I expect that starting to answer those questions would shake things up in a more interesting and constructive way than the suggestion of banning divorce. Who wants to start?
Oh what a lot to deal with. If I, or the site, can help you with your self repping, please feel free to contact us. Best of luck with it all, and remember – this road does have an end. You may not see it at the moment, but you will come out the other end.
Kevin Air on
November 21st, 2009 12:14 am
A very saddening story Shell. You have been through so much, and I’m just really glad that you have found professional helpers. Well done for making this step, your life is going to get so much better now you’ve done this!
Many thanks to everyone at Mayo Wynne Baxter for generously hosting the first Brighton get together. Thought provoking talk by Julia Armstrong, with some great pictures of her running exploits. Always good to meet new and interesting people, uniquely brought together by the Starting Over Show. You’ve got to be in it to win it!
How beautifully written! I can relate so much to this piece. I too decided to walk around , its not easy and the path is hard. Gosh, there are, at times, huge obstacles in the way but I’m never sorry I faced the wall and decided to continue to walk around it!
Collaborative law may well help parents who are determined to put their children first and who are anxious to achieve practical and child centred solutions to the issues which invariably arise on separation or divorce.
The publicity which extremely acrimonious cases cases such as Mills v McCartney and other high-profile divorces have received obscures the fact that, throughout the country, family lawyers and separating couples are striving to reduce acrimony in divorce.
Collaborative law is taking off in England.The increase in the number of cases dealt with in the collaborative system has – happily – reflected the rise in the number of collaborative lawyers with an increase of 87% of cases in 2006/7. Perhaps the most inspiring statistic of all, however, is that of the settlement rate of English collaborative law cases – a remarkable 85%.
The growing success of collaborative law should serve to rebut the notion that family lawyers, who have historically acted in high-profile and high net-worth cases, are wedded to an adversarial approach that can all too often damage families.
.
The collaborative model was developed in North America in the early 1990s by a group of family lawyers whose experience with traditional divorce led them to the conclusion that litigation hurts families, especially children. They were certain that they could develop a better way of helping families through the trauma of divorce and relationship breakdown.
In collaborative divorce, couples that have decided to end their marriage work with a team of professionals to avoid the sometimes arbitrary and uncertain outcomes of court proceedings and to achieve a settlement that best meets their specific needs and those of their children.
Collaborative practice focuses on finding an agreed solution through a series of roundtable meetings between the couple and their lawyers. Where appropriate, other professionals are brought in to help the process, such as accountants, pension advisers and, very importantly, ‘family consultants’. Family consultants are therapists and counsellors who can help the discussions, particularly where there are children involved. Open discussion of objectives, rather than negotiation tactics, is the aim.
The goal of collaborative law is to help couples resolve all matters arising out of their separation in a dignified child friendly and respectful way for the benefit of the whole family and to give them a better communication base for resolving any other issues that may arise in the future.
A vital element of the collaborative process is an agreement that, should the collaborative process break down, both clients need to appoint new legal teams to take the matter to court. This requirement to change lawyers before litigating is a powerful tool to encourage both the clients and their lawyers to remain at the negotiating table.
While many middle-income couples are opting for collaborative law to keep costs down, the most significant advantage for couples in the public eye is the commitment to privacy which characterises the collaborative approach.
Collaborative law can assist couples to achieve a divorce that is confidential, dignified and civilised. If both parties agree to divorce collaboratively, the process can help avoid the expense and acrimony that have been so much in evidence in heavily reported divorce proceedings, for example, the Parlours, the Millers, the McFarlanes, the Charmans and, more recently, the McCartneys.
How different these cases might have been if they had been dealt with collaboratively – more ‘we can work it out’ than ‘help!’. No-one is at their best during relationship breakdown and some desire to lash out is normal. However, if a couple such as the McCartneys had managed to stay on speaking terms they could have opted for a much more dignified way to divorce – where they were in control, which took place in private and which would have provided them with bespoke solutions fixed around the couple’s own priorities and concerns. In short, there is a real possibility that the collaborative approach could have prevented many of these cases in dragging on for so long, running up huge legal bills and filling so many acres of news print.
In a recent speech, Mr Justice Coleridge stated that “what is now being trail-blazed by the Central London Collaborative Forum is obviously right; no right-thinking member of society would want to approach these cases any other way. It is the natural development of a culture begun by the Solicitors Family Law Association, now Resolution, 25 years ago”. He made it clear that he welcomed the opportunity to be able to ally himself “wholeheartedly with the collaborative idea”.
The core advantages of the collaborative approach are:
-Children – they come first. Every step in the collaborative process is taken with them in mind.
- Speed – collaboration allows couples to proceed at their own pace rather than having timescales imposed upon them by our over-burdened family courts.
- Privacy – the collaborative approach generally contains a commitment that everything stays in the room between the couple and their legal teams.
- Control – divorce may affect other financial and business planning. Collaborative law enables couples to stay in control of the divorce process and enables alignment of planning.
- Strength through collaboration – the fact that a couple chooses collaborative law rather than the traditional adversarial process should not be regarded as a sign of weakness. Collaborative lawyers are generally very highly trained specialists and those clients who opt for the collaborative approach will have the advantage of having highly regarded lawyers, whose experience and skills are not in any way diminished by operating outside the court arena.
While the collaborative approach may not be suitable for every case, it is clear that it can suit all types of divorce, ranging from families of limited means to the ‘big-money’ cases which are all too frequently reported in the press.
It should be emphasised that the collaborative process is not an easy option for the clients or the lawyers. Indeed, it may not be a viable option in certain cases, especially where either party is determined to hurt the other party emotionally or financially. However, you do not have to be a saint to have a collaborative divorce – but with the right attitude all clients can avoid the damage and unpredictable outcomes that can result from taking their divorce through the courts. Those with the most to lose, the children, could gain the most in collaborative law.
Excellent explanation of the benefits of collaborative law and I couldn’t agree with you more. It makes sense that finally legal aid will now be made available to qualifying couples who use the collaborative process – about b*** time really.
Liz Greader on
February 3rd, 2010 11:30 pm
Michelle, I am the other makeover star! I live in Brighton. I have just read your story and feel for you and the toughness of it all. I have three children and am going through the split of residence of children and finance regarding property etc. I was forced out and am living on benefits, instead of in my own property. It so frustrating. Am trying to be positive every day, but some days they just dont come. Its horrible to stand in the middle of the children and other parent. The trials and tribulations that come from that are unbearable sometimes. Im right in the middle of the court process and have had to stall with any other makeovers for now as I just dont have any time. Good luck with your journey.
Liz x
Good to see that someone from Kettering has won such a nice prize. Hopefully, it will get her on the road to her new life!
Jody
theresia maria pape van der kaaden on
February 15th, 2010 11:05 am
Hallo,
visited your surgery last year in Brighton. I met Elissa Da Costa, who was very helpful.
Ioonah Woods on
February 17th, 2010 1:40 pm
Thank you for your honesty about the feelings that the children of separation go through, you know it is not only young children who feel this, as a young adult I went through much of this with my parents divorce, I it so important that parents remember that we are doing it for the kids! Keep the priority right! And dignity for the love you have shared.
A great event for all parents who want to handle their divorce well for their children as well as having all the resources and advice that they need to move forward positively for themselves.
Divorcing really needs proper attention especially to the children so as not to give a negative impact on them. I learned an effective tool to manage this dilemma through co-parenting-manager.com. I found an effective way to manage this situation. I have here a really helpful site about tips on co-parenting: http://4help.to/tips
dear suzy a strange thing happend. i was sat on a plane with my two children. going on my first holiday since my seperation. full of fear and wanting to turn back and i had bought septembers eve. and was reading your intervew and i can only say it was a bleesing . to read your story it gave so much strength. we had a fab holiday and i am so proud i did it alone. thank you. Taniaxx
What a great story, I am in the middle of a horrible situation with a of a partner of 11 years now saying – don’t want this anymore and it’s been bad for years, with 2 kids it’s painful but your story gives me hope – Thanks anna
It takes great faith when you are in the midst of it all to believe that things can ever be better, but positive support is essential. I am putting together an online resource site to provide information and ideas of ways to start over: check out http://www.sos-village.org. Personal stories and resource suggestions are welcomed.
Suzy
BRAVO Anna!!! This is so well written and as someone who has never married but who has endured Dating Groundhog Day (brilliant!) for many, many years, I am here to say that I too feel that I am older, wiser (although admittedly cynical and tired sometimes) but I have never totally given up and I do believe that if you do forgive yourself for the part you played in the decisions you made about who you chose to get involved with that you DO realize, “that how people treat you is their karma. How you react is yours.” I couldn’t have said that better myself. I sure wish I could be at this workshop because I’m sure it would be incredibly empowering!! Best of luck to you always!
ANNA IS AN AWSOME Surce of wisodm and advice andhumor for other going through the unexpected losses in love. HEr book DAISY DOOLEY DOES DIVORCE is A HOT must read and a VERY QUICK and humourous reraqd that will leave you wanting more!!!! And as she said starting over is a chance to grow and learnand have new beginnings!!!! God bless ANna for her ability tonot only help others through her sharing about her life but to entertain and inspire along the way!!! GO TO THIS EVENT if you can!!!! You wont be sorry!!!
This article mirrors my experience of finding my own power through adversity. Would I trade who I am today for an easier past? NO WAY! This tells me I am right where I need to be at each and every turn, even when the going is tough and more than likely especially when this is the case.
“….how people treat you is their karma. How you react is yours.”
AMEN to that!
My thanks to SOS and Anna Pasternak for a brilliant affirming article I shan’t forget any time soon!
I wish I had the courage to leave my lover (Robert). People tease me for being with him just to try to get me to dump him. So far he’s taken $200,000-300,000 from me and he never treats me with respect. -itsknewid
Thank you for sharing your dilemma with us – letting go of even an unhealthy relationship is incredibly tough and very difficult to do without the right kind of support.
When I have found starting over from a relationship difficult I have taken advice from the wise, and I recommed you have a chat with some our exhibitors in the Inspiration Zone (under the `Visiting’ tab on the menu at the top of this page). We are all responsible for our own happiness, but that doesn’t mean we have to do it all alone!
Good luck.
Suzy
my husband left me feb 08…….after 15 years of being together…you know the feelings of when it happens, the heartache, the desperation, the tears, need i go on ?
Daisys are my fave flowers, always have been, i have a little tattoo hidden away of a daisyflower….
whilst out 1 day shortly after hubby left me i walked into a book shop, there staring right at me was Daisy Dooley does divorce…..i burst into tears…it was as if the book had my name written all over it !!
so i bought it and read it in a matter of days…i couldnt put it down !! i think in the end i read it 3 times over that same month..
hubby sorry ex was still living with me at the time and he saw the book out many times but didnt say anything..
that book gave me strenght when i was in such a bad place and i thank you for that….truely.
i gave the book away to a friend who was going through a similar experience – i wrote in the front pages and wished her well..
she said the same as me that the book was truely amazing !!
so from me and her thank you anna….
best wishes
xx
Relationship breakdown encourages great change in peoples lives and these people have helped me harness this development in my life, and turn it into something positive.
I would like to say this collaborative process should be made the first step in every divorce proceedings!
I myself is on my second divorce; My first 30 years ago-she wanted a trial seperation, I refused-(on the grounds 3 sickly kids involved)she left! To give herself significance she told all family and friends what they wanted to hear, with much courts to do!
However my efforts and success with my kids were totally overlooked while the courts and welfare forced our children onto her no matter how many times she return them to me with the excuse they were looking after the children’s interest???
I was accuse of violence, bullying, financial incompitance – but a few….yet the same welfare officer in the last paragraph of her report stated I was the best able to to take care of the kids.. temporaryly anyway. Never heard from her again! that is untill my recent heart attack, she wanted to make amends and wish we could have behave differently!?
Suffice to say I had the joys of bring up 3 tiny people and growing with them; 2 MEN and A-MOTHER-OF-A-WOMAN!!! all graduate professionals and articulate communicaters for myself I am able to articulate this commentry!!!!!
All this on a wing and a prayer, and the failure of the system to force a woman to be a mother she couldn’t or wanted to be;-
That their groundless alligetion to thwart my efforts and energy into abandon my ambition to be the Father my children needed failed!
Your story is an inspiration to other father’s in a similar position.
For any single dads reading this, Families Need Fathers are a fantastic support organisation, and also Wikivorce online forum can provide much a community of advice and shared experiences.
http://www.familiesneedfathers.co.uk
http://www.wikivorce.com
Suzy,
What a great story and inspiration to all of us finding ourselves in this situation. I had been married for 12 years, had a gorgeous 8 year old daughter. A few months ago I discovered he was having an affair with my, and I now use the term loosely “best friend”. Double wammy. We are now separated, and beginning the long journey of divorce. I’m not sure games of pool will ever be on the cards for us, I might do far too much damage with the cue! Children are definately what makes it harder, but also what has kept me off the kitchen floor screaming “why”! Uniforms to wash and dinner to prepare. Onwards and upwards. Ally xx
There’s no doubt that where a child or children are involved one is compelled to fight with horrendous pain in order for them to still be able to have a relationship with the father(figure). If I could have forced my ex to give and to love me, believe me he would be by now – but – I couldn’t. It is very painful to see him and to do some things together for the sake of my daughter (7), who has known him her whole life, and is therefore Dad to her. The fact that it feels so unreal to me, and I want to scream at him “why can’t you say something about this”, is something I am trying to work through for myself. There is no point trying to have the conversation, he just does not ‘get it’, and I guess from his perspective I don’t get his wanting it all – the bachelor life and us when it feels ok. So I am now absolutely single, working through grief, in order to be open, one day to love – of the give and take, for better or worse variety….. and in the meantime I see my ex every weekend for my daughter. It feels very difficult, it feels absolutely the right thing to do. I have to learn to accept that my ex just can’t do more than he than he can do at this point in time, BUT I can!!!!!
Your story brought a tear to my eye.
It is an amazing thing that we have to go through.
and so true…..the shock when they open up suddenly
is SO OVERWHELMING…….
keep up the good work.
It’s definitely a work in progress!
I think….sometimes….lonely much better for us…..We can focus with our child…..I know this very hard…..but I think this is better choice beside bad choice that we have…….
I think you are both right with your comments – becoming self assured and not being afraid to feel lonelyness, fear and all those natural emotions we all experience, is key. Acceptance, rather than trying to find immediate escape routes/pain relief of any kind, is a better long term solution. Acceptance takes much more inner strength and courage – it is the opposite of giving in.
execellant discourse and advice.
Anna, you are a star and inspiration to all women around the world. Not only have you survived divorce you also withstood all those ghastly rumours that eventuated on publication of the Love Rat’s tales of luuurve.
If I were to make a package for couples getting married, it would include:
1) Booklet on how to arrange a stress free wedding and how to enjoy it by not being totally exhausted on the day… (have lots of ideas on this as I organised my own, on my own, as husband was not detail orientated!!! He just said yes or no!!!!)
2) Booklet called something like “Communicate now or forever hold your peace!!!” Some wise words that are non judgmental and like little pearls of wisdom should obstacles present themselves….which they always do
3) Gift set including feel good books like The Art of Happiness etc and maybe a nice perfume for ladies and an aftershave for men – aromatherapy makes people happy!
4) Directory of things to do in various areas, like London, that are couple friendly and fun and also not too expensive and possibly free (like the museums….maybe even some vouchers in there if the museums agree….) Encouraging fun and discovery can keep things challenging and strong in a relationship, I think.
5) I would be very reluctant to put masses of information on legal rights, lawyers and medical professionals or therapists at this point but an envelope which I might entitle “In Case of Emergency” (!) with for example SOS’s details and some info on what such an organisation provides…..
Well, those are just my thoughts……!
Good article, Suzy.
Lawyers are a big problem for divorcing couples. They can have a tendency to have more of an eye on their fees than what is best for the couples and respecting what they have amicably agreed. They have a huge incentive to inject areas of contention.
Another point that you may like to look into, or campaign about if I’ve got this right, but that is to remove the negative effect of moving out of the shared home on any eventual proceedings. Time & again I’m told I shouldn’t have moved out but it is absolutely bonkers that a couple should be forced to share the same roof because of some arcane legal nicety. Isn’t it?
Nuff ranting from me….
You are so right Stephen, people staying in the same house because the lawyers tell them to is absolutely crazy. And now we have people staying in the same house because they cannot afford to move out before the house is sold, which can take over a year……
Thank you to all at Jeffrey Green Russell, our generous hosts, with a great venue for our first 2010 SOS get together. A fun, social evening with plenty of opportunities to network. Many thanks to Scott for the great photos and of course to Suzy, for her infectious enthusiasm, drive and generous spirit. Lovely to catch up with old friends and meet some new ones – good to have you on board. Lets make next year’s shows a reason to get the world’s press talking again. See you in October.
There is also a lot of interesting articles on the blogs at http://www.datelineplatinum.com/blog/.
Not knowing Baroness Deech’s background, I think you, Suzy, have a much firmer grasp on reality. As you say, the decision for one parent to stay home is a joint decision made with the best interests of the children in mind. If children have had a stay-at-home parent before divorce then IMHO they will do best with a stay-at-home parent after divorce, if that is at all possible. It makes sense for that to be the same parent who’s been at home before the divorce but it doesn’t have to be that way. Most of us don’t have millions to fight over.
There are so many things that could be said about the notion of ‘banning divorce’!
My main question at the moment is this – what is/are the underlying intention(s) in our society’s approaches, rules and regulations on human relationship? You point to the emotional and spiritual aspects of marriage and divorce. I think that this is something that we miss in our compartmentalised approach to living. I’m wondering what would happen if we really started considering the whole human being. Marriage is a legal status and is therefore subject to the purview of law and by extension government.( Although the relationship between ‘law’ and ‘government’ is a topic in itself.) Marriage as a legal status provides certain protections and regulations for individuals, property and material resources. Historically, marriage laws were brought about for these purposes – and for the purposes of ensuring lineage continuity in certain strands of society. Historically marriage laws were not created to address the requirements of the feeling, thinking, breathing human being. And for me, there’s the rub.
I wonder what would happen if law and government were to start taking seriously the needs of the whole human being – material (this includes the property/ money/ resources aspect), emotional, intellectual and spiritual. It seems that there is a second question following hot on the heels of this one: are law and government equipped to address these? Historically religious institutions have supposedly addressed the inner life of man (and I use the gendered pronoun deliberately). But increasingly, people seem to have different needs. I have many friends who have got married in church. Not a single one of them goes to church or engages in ongoing commitment to a religious institution. Church provided a beautiful and sacred setting for the momentous rite of passage that was their wedding. But would they consult a priest for relationship advice? Probably not.
So the question is, what are our relationship needs and how can they best be addressed? How can the legal vehicle of marriage/ divorce best relate to the inner life of human beings – our emotional, intellectual and spiritual needs?
I expect that starting to answer those questions would shake things up in a more interesting and constructive way than the suggestion of banning divorce. Who wants to start?
Oh what a lot to deal with. If I, or the site, can help you with your self repping, please feel free to contact us. Best of luck with it all, and remember – this road does have an end. You may not see it at the moment, but you will come out the other end.
A very saddening story Shell. You have been through so much, and I’m just really glad that you have found professional helpers. Well done for making this step, your life is going to get so much better now you’ve done this!
Many thanks to everyone at Mayo Wynne Baxter for generously hosting the first Brighton get together. Thought provoking talk by Julia Armstrong, with some great pictures of her running exploits. Always good to meet new and interesting people, uniquely brought together by the Starting Over Show. You’ve got to be in it to win it!
How beautifully written! I can relate so much to this piece. I too decided to walk around , its not easy and the path is hard. Gosh, there are, at times, huge obstacles in the way but I’m never sorry I faced the wall and decided to continue to walk around it!
Collaborative law may well help parents who are determined to put their children first and who are anxious to achieve practical and child centred solutions to the issues which invariably arise on separation or divorce.
The publicity which extremely acrimonious cases cases such as Mills v McCartney and other high-profile divorces have received obscures the fact that, throughout the country, family lawyers and separating couples are striving to reduce acrimony in divorce.
Collaborative law is taking off in England.The increase in the number of cases dealt with in the collaborative system has – happily – reflected the rise in the number of collaborative lawyers with an increase of 87% of cases in 2006/7. Perhaps the most inspiring statistic of all, however, is that of the settlement rate of English collaborative law cases – a remarkable 85%.
The growing success of collaborative law should serve to rebut the notion that family lawyers, who have historically acted in high-profile and high net-worth cases, are wedded to an adversarial approach that can all too often damage families.
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The collaborative model was developed in North America in the early 1990s by a group of family lawyers whose experience with traditional divorce led them to the conclusion that litigation hurts families, especially children. They were certain that they could develop a better way of helping families through the trauma of divorce and relationship breakdown.
In collaborative divorce, couples that have decided to end their marriage work with a team of professionals to avoid the sometimes arbitrary and uncertain outcomes of court proceedings and to achieve a settlement that best meets their specific needs and those of their children.
Collaborative practice focuses on finding an agreed solution through a series of roundtable meetings between the couple and their lawyers. Where appropriate, other professionals are brought in to help the process, such as accountants, pension advisers and, very importantly, ‘family consultants’. Family consultants are therapists and counsellors who can help the discussions, particularly where there are children involved. Open discussion of objectives, rather than negotiation tactics, is the aim.
The goal of collaborative law is to help couples resolve all matters arising out of their separation in a dignified child friendly and respectful way for the benefit of the whole family and to give them a better communication base for resolving any other issues that may arise in the future.
A vital element of the collaborative process is an agreement that, should the collaborative process break down, both clients need to appoint new legal teams to take the matter to court. This requirement to change lawyers before litigating is a powerful tool to encourage both the clients and their lawyers to remain at the negotiating table.
While many middle-income couples are opting for collaborative law to keep costs down, the most significant advantage for couples in the public eye is the commitment to privacy which characterises the collaborative approach.
Collaborative law can assist couples to achieve a divorce that is confidential, dignified and civilised. If both parties agree to divorce collaboratively, the process can help avoid the expense and acrimony that have been so much in evidence in heavily reported divorce proceedings, for example, the Parlours, the Millers, the McFarlanes, the Charmans and, more recently, the McCartneys.
How different these cases might have been if they had been dealt with collaboratively – more ‘we can work it out’ than ‘help!’. No-one is at their best during relationship breakdown and some desire to lash out is normal. However, if a couple such as the McCartneys had managed to stay on speaking terms they could have opted for a much more dignified way to divorce – where they were in control, which took place in private and which would have provided them with bespoke solutions fixed around the couple’s own priorities and concerns. In short, there is a real possibility that the collaborative approach could have prevented many of these cases in dragging on for so long, running up huge legal bills and filling so many acres of news print.
In a recent speech, Mr Justice Coleridge stated that “what is now being trail-blazed by the Central London Collaborative Forum is obviously right; no right-thinking member of society would want to approach these cases any other way. It is the natural development of a culture begun by the Solicitors Family Law Association, now Resolution, 25 years ago”. He made it clear that he welcomed the opportunity to be able to ally himself “wholeheartedly with the collaborative idea”.
The core advantages of the collaborative approach are:
-Children – they come first. Every step in the collaborative process is taken with them in mind.
- Speed – collaboration allows couples to proceed at their own pace rather than having timescales imposed upon them by our over-burdened family courts.
- Privacy – the collaborative approach generally contains a commitment that everything stays in the room between the couple and their legal teams.
- Control – divorce may affect other financial and business planning. Collaborative law enables couples to stay in control of the divorce process and enables alignment of planning.
- Strength through collaboration – the fact that a couple chooses collaborative law rather than the traditional adversarial process should not be regarded as a sign of weakness. Collaborative lawyers are generally very highly trained specialists and those clients who opt for the collaborative approach will have the advantage of having highly regarded lawyers, whose experience and skills are not in any way diminished by operating outside the court arena.
While the collaborative approach may not be suitable for every case, it is clear that it can suit all types of divorce, ranging from families of limited means to the ‘big-money’ cases which are all too frequently reported in the press.
It should be emphasised that the collaborative process is not an easy option for the clients or the lawyers. Indeed, it may not be a viable option in certain cases, especially where either party is determined to hurt the other party emotionally or financially. However, you do not have to be a saint to have a collaborative divorce – but with the right attitude all clients can avoid the damage and unpredictable outcomes that can result from taking their divorce through the courts. Those with the most to lose, the children, could gain the most in collaborative law.
Excellent explanation of the benefits of collaborative law and I couldn’t agree with you more. It makes sense that finally legal aid will now be made available to qualifying couples who use the collaborative process – about b*** time really.
Michelle, I am the other makeover star! I live in Brighton. I have just read your story and feel for you and the toughness of it all. I have three children and am going through the split of residence of children and finance regarding property etc. I was forced out and am living on benefits, instead of in my own property. It so frustrating. Am trying to be positive every day, but some days they just dont come. Its horrible to stand in the middle of the children and other parent. The trials and tribulations that come from that are unbearable sometimes. Im right in the middle of the court process and have had to stall with any other makeovers for now as I just dont have any time. Good luck with your journey.
Liz x
Good to see that someone from Kettering has won such a nice prize. Hopefully, it will get her on the road to her new life!
Jody
Hallo,
visited your surgery last year in Brighton. I met Elissa Da Costa, who was very helpful.
Thank you for your honesty about the feelings that the children of separation go through, you know it is not only young children who feel this, as a young adult I went through much of this with my parents divorce, I it so important that parents remember that we are doing it for the kids! Keep the priority right! And dignity for the love you have shared.
A great event for all parents who want to handle their divorce well for their children as well as having all the resources and advice that they need to move forward positively for themselves.
Divorcing really needs proper attention especially to the children so as not to give a negative impact on them. I learned an effective tool to manage this dilemma through co-parenting-manager.com. I found an effective way to manage this situation. I have here a really helpful site about tips on co-parenting:
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